Board of Directors witch hunt against the ISC

[MrOrange]

Board of Directors witch hunt against the Independent Supporters Club..........DISCUSS!

My own view

Firstly I am an ISC member but am not on the ISC committee nor do I have any personal axe to grind, I’m just a long suffering fan.
I may not have covered every issue here (as there are many) but I've hopefully summed it up as best as I can


In my opinion there is now a real threat to the survival of a truly representative independent supports club after the events of the last couple of weeks.

Many of you would have read the frankly one sided column in the Barrow programme regarding the ISC meeting that took place recently. The meeting was correctly called to brief the members and vote on the ‘demand’ made by the board for funding. I say ‘demand’ as clearly now the choice was either give us the money or else.

Basically the club told the ISC committee that the supporters club should give them £250 per week every week until the end of the season to pay one of the player’s wages or ‘boost the budget’ as it was to be sold.


To complicate matters the board early this season set up the 50-50 draw effectively in competition with the 100 draw which was just daft. If you don't know about the 100 draw it took over from the original 50-50 last season and is there to make it possible to provide transport to away games for fans. So rather than having a good discussion about the stupidity of running two draws the boards intention so far seems to seek to undermine and divide opinion in favour of their own 50-50 by sowing the seed that suggested only a few benefited from the current long standing arrangement. Some directors views on away fans are quite shocking, I quote what was said in the meeting ‘We (the board) do not care about away supporters’ coldly stating that supporters representing their team away are of no financial benefit to the club so are irrelevant, factually correct I guess but short sighted and divisive nonetheless. Hence no doubt the desire to eliminate the small amount of subsidy that helps those who give up a whole lot of time and money supporting the team on those very long away trips.
 Perversely the club are quite happy to welcome our opponents’ fans spending money at home games, I wonder how they would feel if their clubs regarded them in this way or they all decided not to come as it was of no 'financial' benefit to their club
.

Yes in a way the few that travel could be regarded as getting a direct benefit but only in the way that it pays towards the empty seats, but the ISC is in a no win situation in this regard, the 100 draw made up the shortfall in the cost of the coach which is run on a purely non-profit and quite often loss making basis. Even with this some argue that it still costs too much for the coach so a minibus is put on to save money (or in some cases it’s a minibus or nothing due to lack of interest) and then more moaning that a minibus is too uncomfortable or there are then not enough seats. The truth is that if more fans used the away travel it would be cheaper. To demonize the dedicated few as some sort of privileged upper class lording it up on a 49 seater is disrespectful and about as far from the truth as you can get. As for the argument about it being cheaper to drive well sometimes maybe it is if you work it out on purely the cost of petrol. However if you factor into the equation the full cost of purchase, insurance, depreciation etc the difference is not so clear. This also ignores the fact that not everyone can or wants to drive; the young, disabled and old don’t always have the choice.


Coming back to the £250 per week the club wanted from the ISC and the vote. It was apparent taking into account the average amount collected that even when diverting the 100 draw into the wages fund this would still not cover the amount required, concerns were expressed that should the club demand £250 per week but then given the situation for example where games were called off it would then put serious strain on the ISC bank account and probably make them overdrawn. So being realistic it was proposed that the travel subsidy was maintained to make travel viable but in addition fans raise as much as they could towards the target by any and all means, exploring new revenue streams in full co-operation with the club. This was overwhelmingly accepted by the members but flatly rejected by the board.

So to sum up it was £250 per week unconditionally or nothing, a very strange stance indeed.


It’s a shame the column makes no mention of the substantial sum given to the club by the ISC only a few weeks prior for pitch equipment which was only too gladly received.


I am sure most would agree that the board have done wonders for the club over the last few years and should be lauded for their achievements against the odds. However now, as confirmed in the programme notes and around the ground on Saturday, with the draconian restrictions now imposed on the 100 draw and the ISC in general the board are seeking to snuff out the ISC and ignore its members (fans) opinion which smacks of a purely politically motivation to oust the freely elected committee in favour of club stooges.


It is really disappointing that it has come to this situation, all it needed was an ounce of diplomacy after all we are all fans of the club and all want the best and to ensure its continued survival and progress so the current in-fighting, threats, personal vendettas and attempts to alienate certain individuals is not the way forward and I urge the board to work with the ISC to overcome their differences.



Don’t forget

Players, managers and even directors come and go, we FANS endure come what may
COYI

[Iron Webbo]

A few comments on the above if I may.

There is no threat from the Club to the ISC - they can continue as they see fit. The view of the board is that we want to work with an organisation committed to supporting the Club going forward.

There has been no demand for anything from the ISC - merely a request to help support our new 'Boost the Budget' initiative - which was declined at last Sunday week's meeting.

There were no figures put as a pre-requisite, the sum of £250 per week was used as an example of a figure that could fund a player's salary or expenses in the squad. If we could generate more our Manager would be delighted!

The 50-50 draw was initially put in place to assist the Club with its grounds maintenance and to fill a gap between our income and expenditure. We politely asked the ISC, for four matches in a row, to not compete with the Club draw. Unfortunately, this was not complied with.

While actively supporting away travel, it is clear that all the Club's income is derived from home matches and we have to focus on these - it's what pays the bills after all.

The figures we have seen for ISC away travel suggest that the venture is losing hundreds of pounds each game, with less than twenty travelling to Kidderminster on a coach that cost £700! We hope to work with an organisation that makes away travel affordable and cost effective. That said, I know from personal experience that it is far from easy.

The idea of the ad hoc fund-raising initiative that was suggested via the second vote at the ISC meeting was not supported by the board as payments through the Boost the Budget initiative need to be made on a regular basis to cover payments for regular salaries or expenses. To clarify, we cannot add to the squad and advise the newcomer(s) that they'll be paid if and when we have the money - it's not our way. Players have to be paid when their payments are due.

My programme notes had previously (in the first match v Lincoln) thanked the ISC for their donation from last season's fund-raising towards our mower and I once again thanked them their previous support in the Barrow programme. I genuinely believe that they've done a good job in the past, but have now lost their focus.

We wish the ISC well in the future but are now working with a new organisation which we hope to see launched by the end of the month. We have no view on the ISC committee, but are aware that two stood down after the meeting last Sunday week. That said, we are pleased with the calibre of supporters willing to put themselves forward to join the new pro-Club organisation.

We all come and go - even fans. What is most important is that we all do what we can to take the Club forward and that is what the Board has been, is, and continues to be, committed to.

Finally thank you for taking the time to put your side as you see it - discussion and constructive criticism is healthy and encouraged - long may it continue. We're all supporters of BTFC after all.

[MrOrange]

Thanks Iron Webbo for the detailed and informative response but as I said its a great shame that it can't be worked out with the ISC as I expect there are paid up members like myself who are wondering what happens next after all the effort (not to mention the various volunteers and helpers) that has been put in over many years raising money to benefit the club not just the supporters just to end up with a slap in the face for not complying over an small issue that's been blow out of proportion. Its like we are the bad guys in this and are being punished, I struggle to see why that should be so, I don't believe there has ever been an anti club attitude or loss of focus, why would there be, just poor communications at worst, as yourself acknowledged.
It would have been better to convene a meeting to raise the boards concerns in detail if you thought you could no longer work with the structure as it was rather than leave it to fans like myself to read in the programme, especially after voting to do our utmost to help anyway. I note your comment about your repeated requests leading up to the meeting but even so you must agree that to effectively shut out the current organisation what ever you think of it is a serious issue that looks bad on all parties.
The away travel continues to be a problem (thankless task) but I believe the aim over the season is for the cost to balance out obviously there will be peeks and troughs, although that is now all upin the air.
I don't think anyone would seriously expect a player to be paid as and when but the concerns muted about continuously funding at a fixed level were valid, perhaps it could have been done a different way, we shall never know.

[e7cm7]

This is getting silly. If fewer than 50 members of the ISC, in the light of the situation, decided to stop attending home games, that would cost BTFC more than the £250 a week which seems to be at the heart of the impasse.

[braintreeo]

I find it extremely sad that a small club like Braintree Town with a small but dedicated support finds itself at loggerheads with the supporters club and vice versa. There is something sadly wrong if the clubs representatives can't sit down over a pint with the supporters club committee and work out joint objectives going forward.

When I was on the committee of Leyton Orients supporters club (1000+ members) our clear guideline was to raise as much money as possible throughout the season for the benefit of the club, so on this point I am fully in agreement with the chairman but funds were made available by way of donation at the end of the season (usually between £30k and £50k) and never on a weekly/monthly basis.
Lines of communication were clear and simple as we had a representative sit in on board meetings so that we felt an inclusive part of what was going on (other than voting on football related matters of course).

If IW's point about away travel losing hundreds of pounds a trip is accurate then it's lunacy. we would never run away travel without covering our costs at a minimum and any profit went into the fund for the cheque at the end of the season, there is no justification for running loss making travel for just a few people at that point you run the danger of stop being a supporters club and falling into the private members club bracket IMHO. What I will say though if the club expect a regular or monthly payment to cover the boost the budget player wages initiative that is I believe as unreasonable as subsidising loss making away travel- raising money from functions can be a sporadic and unpredictable exercise and should not be a part of the clubs budget which is effectively what seems to be the request from the club.

The solution is simple, Sit down and work out your objectives together and don't drive a wedge between supporters and club.

[ironhorse]

braintreeo, I have not always agreed with what you say, but I have to say you are the voice of reason in a sea of chaos. I fully agree with what you are saying and as you well know, I helped steer the supporters club in years passed. I always had a good working relationship with the Board, did'nt get to sit in on many meetings but then the Chairman always kept me in the loop. All funds as you say should be aimed at supporting the club, I think the majority of supporters are of the same opinion.

[braintreeo]

Sept 27, 2015 13:07:56 GMT ironhorse said:

braintreeo, I have not always agreed with what you say, but I have to say you are the voice of reason in a sea of chaos. I fully agree with what you are saying and as you well know, I helped steer the supporters club in years passed. I always had a good working relationship with the Board, did'nt get to sit in on many meetings but then the Chairman always kept me in the loop. All funds as you say should be aimed at supporting the club, I think the majority of supporters are of the same opinion.

What I believe is that the club should be grateful for donations from the supporters organisation as and when they are able to be made, I think it is completely unreasonable of a clubs board to request/demand regular payments as an add on to the playing budget, although we would all like a stronger squad to take that next step in the national league. If the ISC are subsidising away travel from the funds I have no problem with that as long as it's not loss making and the subsidy is kept at a reasonable level. As I understand there are almost 100 fans signed up to the ISC that is quite a large proportion of Braintree core support to alienate, Very sad that the pleasant chap who has run the club shop for some years has resigned.

I see on another post that Baswaldsmate has mentioned the sum of £10,000 being raised and possibly by Christmas by the "new" supporters organisation, so just under £1000 a week! to put that into context we raised £30,000 to £50,000 a year at the LOSC with a membership ten times that of the ISC and a committee of 15. We ran at least one disco/race night/quiz night a month had a supporters club end of season dinner which raised funds, ploughed profits from the LOSC bar and travel section in to get those monies raised.

The question that pops into my mind is that if the club are trying to raise that level of funding it's more a job for the commercial department who sould look to raise the sum with local or national companies in the area via player sponsorship or the like.

[baswaldsmate]

Well said Gordon, l like you have over the year's put a lot of effort into getting the iron into the top flight of non league football. They said l was mad when l said we could get into the conference. Even last year when l picked up the challenge to get the gate up for Telford game, most at club thought we would get 800\900 for game. Put your mind to it and be positive and yes gate was the biggest for 47 years 2200 approx. So with things on the field going well, and the club gates not yet up to break even number, a top up on fund raising needs to be done urgently. So a few of us want to push fund raising to much higher levels but with everybody helping. Remember we are Braintree where the impossible is possible. Barry

[braintreeo]

Wow there is a lot of back slapping going on seems ironic that you are trying to boost gates whilst falling out with nearly 100 of your core supporters in the Supporters Club, Well done for all your achievements but can you clarify if the £10,000 is additional to the £250 per week that was requested from the ISC or was the "boost the budget" a secret code for cover predicted losses.

Does the urgency to raise £10,000 mean that there is s something of a financial problem at the club?

[baswaldsmate]

As far as I am concerned its not back slapping its showing what can be achieved by being positive. A group of fan's asked me to help so the target of £10,000 pounds was a figure that l think we can achieve. The amount is what all of us pulling together, 100 club,IEC club and some new fund raising ideas. You seem to know how to raise funds why not help everybody is in this not just a few. It's common sense that if we budget for gates around 850 and we have a short full somebody will have to make up the difference this is one way of trying to help. Getting a good gate against Grimsby would also help even out average attendances Anyway that's enough from me till after meeting as we as a club need to stay positive on and off the field.

[MrOrange]

Barry, you are a club legend and your dedication deserves some back slapping, we all want whats best for the club and its future and if people start acting like grown ups that will happen. I read on the thread 'club-shop-resignation' that you spoke with Andrew, that's a very positive step, it would be nice to know how this went as unfortunately it still appears that the club are proceeding with the plan to steamroller the ISC, for example, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the race night originally an ISC event? The thread started by StuartR on the subject has vanished/been deleted. Surely this would have been an opportunity to build bridges, work together and get back to normal if it was kept as such (Although I still don't see the need for a 'new' supporters club, details of which are still vague) bearing in mind there was another vote recently by the ISC which unanimously agreed to back the current fund raising exercise so whats the problem?
I was under the impression that the ISC had events throughout the year, race night, bingo, rumble etc which raised money that at some point went to the club (the 100 draw was only for away travel), why has it been felt necessary to force a change to this arrangement. As mentioned by braintreeo the sudden urgency is a concern and IMO the methods employed smack of bully boy desperation. Upsetting fans and volunteers alike is self defeating when the main objective is continued sustainable success. There was a concerted effort a few years back I recall to raise funds for ground improvements, I am sure together this time we can raise the 10K whilst maintaining the trust and loyalty of all fans. 

[4whatitsworth]

Come along to the meeting this Sunday at 2pm, have your say, build some bridges, and get us all working together for the good of the Football Club.

[baswaldsmate]

Had a nice positive e mail from Andrew Freemantle about future fund raising and helping raise the profile of matches by who ever is doing it.
Will see how we can push on after the meeting on Sunday when the fan's with new ideas want to move fund raising to higher levels.
Let's be positive after Sunday's meeting even if we have 2 groups working for the team.
No reason why we cannot achieve our joint aim.

Good to see what's happening.

[smudge7946]

What's going on at Cressing Road?
I've not been able to get to any games yet this season, but we are doing well and nicely placed for another playoff challenge.
I hope the more regular fans and board can sort things out quickly and not derail this potentially very good season.
Having fans fight each other is a Chelmsford thing!

[peterfoster]

Oct 1, 2015 10:08:30 GMT smudge7946 said:

Having fans fight each other is a Chelmsford thing!

Examples, please, Mark....

[oranjeboom]

Oct 1, 2015 10:29:43 GMT peterfoster said:

Oct 1, 2015 10:08:30 GMT smudge7946 said:

Having fans fight each other is a Chelmsford thing!

Examples, please, Mark....

Charles always having to cover his butt

Mixture continually at war with all and sundry under his variety of aliases

You banned from even posting at the CCFC frothbox for a considerable period (then have the temerity to make negative comments regarding moderation at an opposing fans forum)

Good result over Ebbsfleet by the Clarets btw.